freeradical9: (Default)
freeradical9 ([personal profile] freeradical9) wrote2008-07-21 02:09 am
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Er...??!

Seme/uke meme via [livejournal.com profile] erinmacha




The SEME or UKE Quiz
created with QuizFarm.com
You scored as The Breaker SEME

You are the most imaginative, helpful, and strong-hearted SEME out there. You can be quiet and helpful at the same time which is a rarity. You're good at listening to others and you don't deny their ideas. One thing you can't stand is seeing someone sad, crying, or otherwise unhappy. Those who think you're shy aren't always the most right but it's true you don't need to talk much unless you have something important to say. You would be paired with the Sorrowful UKE because everyone needs a shoulder to cry on and you're just the guy/gal for the job. It's best to avoid the Homicidal SEME but even if you do that it's easy for someone as calm and helpful as you to get mixed up in the schemes of the certain Devilish UKE. You are truly best placed with the Gentle SEME as a buddy. For my last info, I have to say that you really don't mind and will go with the flow - whatever your partner is into is fine by you but considering who you're best matched with I'd say that they'd be too scared to do anything out of the ordinary. Give them a little nudge to let 'em know it's alright, okay?


The Breaker SEME


80%

The Optimistic UKE


75%

The Gentle SEME


75%

The Sorrowful UKE


65%

The Devilish UKE


30%

The Homicidal SEME


20%





Okay, yes. I guess after taking a Myers-Briggs type indicator test recently, it fits. But...seme? Hmm. A bit ironic, actually, since I was just pondering the other day the quandary of why I seem to write so much 85 when 58 makes more sense to me in light of canon interactions. Still, switching is good.

Strange.

[identity profile] avierra.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 11:26 am (UTC)(link)
Oh! I missed this:


Okay, yes. I guess after taking a Myers-Briggs type indicator test recently, it fits. But...seme? Hmm. A bit ironic, actually, since I was just pondering the other day the quandary of why I seem to write so much 85 when 58 makes more sense to me in light of canon interactions. Still, switching is good.


I like 85 because Hakkai is a control freak, and I don't see why that wouldn't extend to the bedroom either. Gojyo is more outgoing/easygoing than Hakkai, and I think he'd pretty much go along with whatever made Hakkai more comfortable. I do think he'd top from the bottom though, at least some of the time. Or they'd switch it up occassionally. But I think Hakkai would take control most of the time, just as he does when they're on the road and there's something he wants Gojyo to do (or not).
ext_12512: Hinoe from Natsume Yuujinchou, elegant and smirky (Saiyuki Gojyo obscenity)

MY THOUGHTS ON YAOI, LET ME SHOW YOU IT

[identity profile] smillaraaq.livejournal.com 2008-07-22 04:24 am (UTC)(link)
Pretty much in agreement with all that, although in my usual overthinky way my views on the possible dynamic are fairly complicated and ambiguous. Teal Deer alert, abandon all hope ye who don't care for meta by the bucket...

In my personal fanon, I assume Kanan was Gonou's first and only sexual partner to date -- he was such a weird, intense, unsociable kid that I have trouble seeing him even playing doctor as a child or having an experimental teen phase back in the orphanage. He just doesn't seem the sort for casual friendly flings to me; he needs an intense emotional connection to even let anyone get that close, and at that point he'd be just obsessive (and possessive) towards the loved one. So, no prior same-sex experience -- but given that he had no problems shrugging off societal conventions about incest, I really, really don't think that finding himself in love with/attracted to a man would require a huge mental adjustment on his part; he'd sort of shrug, file it away mentally as yet another quirk of human nature, and move on. If there's any character who would be the sort to say he's falling for a soul or personality and the gender of the body housing it is irrelevant, Hakkai is one who I could honestly believe that was the honest truth rather than a lofty-sounding cliche.

Gojyo, while we know from canon is an enthusiastic ladies' man, my fanon is that he's had at least a few same-sex experiences -- hustling for survival in his younger days, and quite possibly something with Banri. I don't think that he would ever want to admit to it, and wouldn't self-identify as bi -- he's got so many self-image problems already, I think he'd be one who would really struggle with the idea that same-sex attraction/experience might make him seem weak or unmanly, some how. Also, while he's slept around the block and back, I don't think he's ever been in love -- at least, not with anyone who ever loved him back; perhaps there may have been the odd one-sided crush here or there, but I don't get the feeling he's ever been with anyone who really wanted him for more than a good-looking easy lay.

So just as far as sheer variety of experience goes, I'd think Gojyo has Hakkai beat; he's done more and kinkier stuff just as a matter of opportunity; but like Avi notes, I think he's so easygoing and willing to please that a lot of the kink is less about him being kinked to the bone, and more about him being a total "sure, why not?" try-anything sort who'll go along with just about anything that seems to make a partner happy. I don't tend to think he has any problems with it, and probably enjoys it quite a bit, but he'd also probably be pretty happy even with just totally vanilla stuff; so long as everybody's getting off and he's getting ego-boosting feedback on his performance, it's all good. I can see him being a fairly enthusiastic consumer of porn, but it'd all be the most mass-market commercial sort of magazine and video stuff.

Hakkai, on the other hand...he may not have had the chance to do nearly as much, but I suspect that between his esoteric reading, penchant for the most random instructional materials and his twisty twisty mind, he's spent a LOT of time thinking about things, and not all that thinking may have been totally vanilla. He's a control freak, he can be quite subtly manipulative when he wants, he clearly has no problems with doing something he wants even if society says it's sick and wrong... Add in all of his screamingly huge guilt and punishment issues, the tight repression and control of that wild, violent id-youkai side, and oh yeah let's not forget the stoic self-mutilation, and my BDSM-potential kinkdar just pings right off the freakin' scale. Gojyo can maybe recite all the measurements of his favorite centerfolds, but Hakkai's the one who seems like he might have pored over the most arcane bits of the Kama Sutra and Taoist sex manuals, or read De Sade in the original...

Re: MY THOUGHTS ON YAOI, LET ME SHOW YOU IT

[identity profile] avierra.livejournal.com 2008-07-22 03:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Gojyo, while we know from canon is an enthusiastic ladies' man, my fanon is that he's had at least a few same-sex experiences -- hustling for survival in his younger days, and quite possibly something with Banri.

Yeah, I have thought from day 1 that Gojyo probably turned tricks as a kid. I mean, realistically what else is a 12-year-old going to do to survive? (I wonder if this is why Minekura hasn't gone too much into Gojyo's past... that maybe a a Bit Much, and hey, we can all read between the lines pretty well).

As for Banri, it was really driven home to me in the Burial OVA that Banri was at least bisexual. I hadn't realized from reading the manga what it was he was doing when he was sort of looking at Hakkai side-long with his hand raise. But in the OVA, he's actually shown running the back of his hand along Hakkai's face in a sort of caress (well, we all know how well that went ;P ). Also, [personal profile] flemmings had some sort of write up about that (which I can't find now, of course) where she said that the whole subtext of all that is that Banri is commenting that Gojyo has changed where he does his business, e.g. from Banri to Hakkai. So, word.

I hope they run across Banri again. He is such an unrepentant bastard, what's not to love. :D

Hakkai is the kink-meister, eh? I have always thought so. ;D I am not sure he and Gojyo would get into S&M though, I think that might be hugely issue-laden for Gojyo. D/s, sure, there is already elements of that in their relationship. Bondage, maybe, heck, some of that isn't even all that kinky really.

I totally agree with your comments about uke-Hakkai being so only because it would be what he wants. And yeah, totally topping from the bottom (funny how I see both of them doing that, hahaha)

Re: MY THOUGHTS ON YAOI, LET ME SHOW YOU IT

[identity profile] freeradical9.livejournal.com 2008-07-23 02:38 am (UTC)(link)
I hope they run across Banri again. He is such an unrepentant bastard, what's not to love. :D

Hee. If the series continues ad infinitum, I could see that. Banri adds such an interesting (tense) dynamic to 585. I bet he could tell lots of stories about the good old days. (Personally I would love to see him make a reappearance just so Hakkai can give him the comeuppance that he truly deserves.) ^_^
ext_12512: Hinoe from Natsume Yuujinchou, elegant and smirky (Saiyuki Gojyo obscenity)

Re: MY THOUGHTS ON YAOI, LET ME SHOW YOU IT

[identity profile] smillaraaq.livejournal.com 2008-07-23 07:35 am (UTC)(link)
And his reaction when he meets Banri that first time, too -- assuming that he's being propositioned, well, that doesn't feel to me like it's a conclusion he'd jump to out of thin air. Especially not now that we've seen just how *sleazy* Ban can come across. IMO he's making that assumption because his past experiences have told him it's what to expect from someone approaching him with that sort of tone...and the rather violent reaction to it suggests that maybe some of those experiences went really, really badly (like the gang-rape attempt on wee!Sanzo), and/or it's a part of his life he's trying to put behind him, but guiltily assuming people can still somehow sense on him.

And yeah, as far as the kink spectrum goes, I'd tend to see Hakkai much more on the DS/BD side of things; and even there I tend to think he'd be very very much on the subtle side of things, less about barking orders and more about quietly purred suggestions that you know better than to refuse. (And, well, those vines just scream "BONDAGE POTENTIAL" to me, of course. Mmmmmm. Vines.) SM I'd agree would be much likelier to be fraught for both of them -- Gojyo both for his history of being physically and emotionally abused, and just for generally being so soft-hearted that I think he'd have a lot of trouble hurting or degrading someone in any way more serious than a little light spanking or the mildest sort of name-calling dirty talk. Per some of the more agonizing stuff [livejournal.com profile] emungere has done, or some of the kinkmeme fics, I think he might *do* it anyway if it seemed that important to Hakkai, but he'd be really horribly conflicted about it. As for Hakkai, well, between his violent history and severe guilt complexes, I could see him having sadistic or masochistic streaks, but the sadistic side in particular would I think be so tied in to all of his issues about control and guilt and his past crimes and fear of his violent/insane/youkai aspects, and fear of hurting others, that he might be intensely wary of ever expressing it. It's a lot easier for me to picture the guilt and self-mortification aspects leading to him wallowing in an extreme masochism, and with his youkai physiology he could take a rather terrifying amount of damage if he wanted to head down that road...

Re: MY THOUGHTS ON YAOI, LET ME SHOW YOU IT

[identity profile] freeradical9.livejournal.com 2008-07-23 02:23 am (UTC)(link)
Yay! Meta buckets!

Actually, I don't think I have too much to add to any of that, it's so clearly stated. ^_^

In my personal fanon, I assume Kanan was Gonou's first and only sexual partner to date

Yeah, I don't think that's too much of a stretch at all. Actually, Chin Isou says "To think your first woman was your older sister...." so the part about nobody before Kanan is canon. Afterwards there's so much emotional baggage I can't see anything happening (plus Gojyo's already there, while Hakkai is healing, so).

but given that he had no problems shrugging off societal conventions about incest, I really, really don't think that finding himself in love with/attracted to a man would require a huge mental adjustment on his part; he'd sort of shrug, file it away mentally as yet another quirk of human nature, and move on.

Brilliant. Exactly so.

my fanon is that he's had at least a few same-sex experiences -- hustling for survival in his younger days, and quite possibly something with Banri.

Also a very logical conclusion. I think it's true that Gojyo would wrestle with the idea of s same-sex relationship more--but as avierra points out, it also depends on how much of that stuff exists in his unwritten past.

(Re: Gojyo) so long as everybody's getting off and he's getting ego-boosting feedback on his performance, it's all good. Hakkai, on the other hand...

LOL! ^_^
ext_12512: Hinoe from Natsume Yuujinchou, elegant and smirky (585 embrace your demons)

Re: MY THOUGHTS ON YAOI, LET ME SHOW YOU IT

[identity profile] smillaraaq.livejournal.com 2008-07-23 07:47 am (UTC)(link)
Heh, I mistrust Chin Isou enough that even if he said it, well, I wouldn't put it past him to distort the truth just to be hurtful and insulting. I still believe that was probably what was going on, but short of hearing it from Hakkai himself or a more unbiased observer like Kanzeon-sama, I'd tend to take Chin Isou's statement as not-quite-trustworthy enough to consider total proof...
ext_12512: Hinoe from Natsume Yuujinchou, elegant and smirky (tayuu: paths of desire)

TL; DR, the sequel

[identity profile] smillaraaq.livejournal.com 2008-07-22 04:25 am (UTC)(link)


So, on the one hand, it's very, very easy to see Hakkai as just a total uber-dom, and Gojyo being easy-going enough to just go with the flow. But at the same time...I can potentially see scenarios where Gojyo is so weirded out about falling seriously for a guy that he'd want to top just to keep things a little bit less threatening to his fragile self-image, and Hakkai being caring and understanding enough (and maybe scheming towards a long-term outcome) to go along with it even if he'd rather top. And Hakkai has that massive massive streak of guilt and self-denial, which I could also see pushing him towards not letting himself have everything he wants because he doesn't deserve it, or he's afraid that he's tempting fate if he's too happy. And with the fussy caretaking side and the terror of losing control, he might be worried that his being in a seme role would be dangerous for Gojyo -- this is pretty much the main aspect in which I can manage to bend my brain around an uke-youkai!Hakkai.

Although if you wanna talk topping from the bottom, that's pretty much the way I see an uke Hakkai in almost any permutation. Gojyo's emotionally needier and Hakkai can think circles around him or subtly manipulate him into doing what he wants; if Hakkai's on the bottom, it's because he *wants* to be there, one way or another.

Meta meta meta!

[identity profile] freeradical9.livejournal.com 2008-07-22 01:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd agree with Hakkai being a control freak, and especially agree with the bit about topping from the bottom. The part that makes me wonder about canon 85 is that, although Hakkai definitely has control issues, I don't think he really likes to be in charge. (Kind of related to Tenpou, who is a Marshal but doesn't like to give orders).

Hakkai *always* deferrs to Sanzo, even when he doesn't like it. When Gojyo goes after Kami-sama, Hakkai is pissed, but he follows Sanzo until Sanzo decides that they need to turn around. Also (reading lots into body language) when Sanzo leaves the rest of the ikkou and they're walking in the desert, I find it interesting that it's Gojyo who is physically in the lead of their little group. During the time Sanzo's gone, Hakkai makes lots of suggestions and practical observations, but I don't think he makes any decisions for the party as a whole.

IMHO, I don't think canon Hakkai likes publicly making choices for others; I think he prefers to manipulate others into making the choices for him.

(Of course, AU Hakkai is another matter entirely, because then one can dial down his need not to give orders, and dial up the other traits that would lead to the seme role) ^_^

Re: Meta meta meta!

[identity profile] avierra.livejournal.com 2008-07-22 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Hakkai *always* deferrs to Sanzo, even when he doesn't like it. When Gojyo goes after Kami-sama, Hakkai is pissed, but he follows Sanzo until Sanzo decides that they need to turn around. Also (reading lots into body language) when Sanzo leaves the rest of the ikkou and they're walking in the desert, I find it interesting that it's Gojyo who is physically in the lead of their little group. During the time Sanzo's gone, Hakkai makes lots of suggestions and practical observations, but I don't think he makes any decisions for the party as a whole.

Yeah, I very much got the impression during their Sanzo-less journey that leadership was a joint responsibility between Gojyo and Hakkai. But you are right, that whole thing was very much a relfection of Kenren and Tempou, with Tempou explaining what had to be done, and Kenren making sure it got done the way Tempou wanted.

As for Sanzo and Hakkai... I am not sure Hakkai is capable of going up against Sanzo, whether out of inclination or a sense of gratitude or whatever. I think he gets Gojyo to do his dirty work for him on that front. Hrmmm. An excellent example is the Kami-sama mah-jong game where Hakkai give Gojyo The Look of Doom to make him play the damn game, and then Gojyo in turn forces Sanzo to play. (Btw, I love Hakkai's Look of Doom, and how it INSTANTLY brings about the desired behavior. I wish I had one of those ;_; )

So, back to G&H, you think that Hakkai would let Gojyo think he was in charge, while totally controlling things? I can see that, actually.
ext_12512: Hinoe from Natsume Yuujinchou, elegant and smirky (Saiyuki Gaiden: sakura of doom)

Re: Meta meta meta!

[identity profile] smillaraaq.livejournal.com 2008-07-23 08:09 am (UTC)(link)
I think the Sanzo/Hakkai thing is not just simple gratitude, but flat out obligation, service and knowledge of an unpayable debt. Gojyo saved his physical life, but Sanzo in arguing his case before the Sanbutshin has given him a chance at redeeming his soul. And with Sanzo as sort of his spiritual parole officer, more or less, there's a hierarchical relationship that you don't have with the debt of gratitude towards Gojyo. They're bound together by a higher authority, while the association with Gojyo is just a personal matter that could be ended at will. It's very telling that Sanzo used the talk of a classical "bite off his tongue" suicide to express the depths of Hakkai's loyalty -- it couches the relationship in a rather feudal air which makes the serious depth of it all very apparent.
ext_12512: Hinoe from Natsume Yuujinchou, elegant and smirky (Saiyuki Gaiden: sakura of doom)

Re: Meta meta meta!

[identity profile] smillaraaq.livejournal.com 2008-07-23 07:59 am (UTC)(link)
Mmmm...and with Tenpou at least, it's not as if he necessarily has some of the false humility, struggles to maintain a facade of normalcy and harmlessness, etc. that Hakkai has going for him. I sometimes feel like he's playing up the absent-minded eccentric academic thing a little bit, so people will be more likely to write him off without remembering how razor-sharp his mind is. And in the field ops settings, the not giving orders doesn't seem like he's necessarily uncomfortable with power itself, but he doesn't perhaps like to have to rely on others, or put others at risk.

Sanzo is maybe a little bit of a special case, since Hakkai is tied to him in such a web of giri; Sanzo is most definitely In Charge and Hakkai is bound in the role of the loyal retainer...